MUCH MORE THAN REALITY, AN INTERVIEW WITH ZURDO CARIBE

Undoubtedly, Zurdo‘s exhibition at the Montana Gallery was a long-awaited event, among other things, because of the curiosity that his pictorial work -probably the lesser known side of his creative work- arouses. His canvases -windows to Zurdo’s complex reality that mixes graffiti, feelings, society, politics and art to offer an aesthetic experience that hides an infinite number of coded messages- will be up until March. We caught up with him and he assisted us in understanding that decoding process…

The exhibition “Nada más que realidad” by Zurdo Caribe will remain open at Montana Gallery Barcelona until 22 March.

“There is an intentional component to my painting that if you take the time to observe, you will win some “prizes” in the form of messages.”

Let’s talk about the painting about New York….

I did this one during the euphoria of when I came back from New York. There’s a sign that says it’s forbidden for passengers to cross the tracks. It’s upside down as an aesthetic whim, probably so it wouldn’t be so easy to read. There is an intentional component to my painting that if you take the time to look, you win “prizes” in the form of messages. It is a prize for those who took the time to appreciate it. For example, in this canvas we find a somewhat hidden original sketch of mine.

What does the movement of the markers refer to?

It’s the gesture, the tags, the mailboxes; they are typical elements of New York graffiti. The orange tone is from the color of the seats… that was the station near where I was staying. This canvas is more about sensations than actual stories.

“With collage I feel that I introduce a piece of reality inside the painting, rather than telling it.”

Being able to paint realistically, why did you decide to use photographs as a collage?

I want reality to be introduced into the work. Sometimes I use collage because I’m interested in the photo. In some cases, for example, I painted the typography, but in other works I may paste it directly. With scollage I feel that I introduce a piece of reality inside the painting, rather than telling it. When I go to a gallery I look at the paintings in many ways and I like to look at them from the side to see the volume and the textures. Something that impacted me a lot with Tàpies’ type of work.

Of course, Tàpies’ paintings give great importance to the material…

That’s right. That material part interests me a lot. That’s why I use collage, and then I paste it, and then I paste again over it… sometimes I make intentional wrinkles, sometimes they come out unintentionally.

Crackle painting, for example, is also intentional.

Exactly, you have to repaint in the exact moment when it’s not completely dry to achieve that effect. All these parts refer to the plastic action of graffiti.

Let’s talk about the Europe topic…

This painting tells a little about my experience in Europe.

“In the Europe painting I explain the concept of double illegality, as an immigrant and as a graffiti writer.”

Does the rendering of the Brandenburg Gate have to do with the design of the Berlin subway?

Yes, it’s the one with the stamping on the windows. We were in Krumme Lanke and I remember taking a photo from inside the wagon and that’s what came out. It also depicts the Naviglio neighborhood where I was doing several advertising walls, among them the Campari one. The photo is from a collection I have of Milan postcards from the 1920s-30s. It is from the same series as the one in the image that appears from the Vittorio Emanuele Gallery in this other picture. Here I juxtapose Caracas and Milan using silkscreen printing on one of my photos of the building where the remains of Simon Bolívar are, right in front of where I lived. In this composition Rose, a fellow Crew member, is portrayed. I took this photo and the one at the painting titled “Ravan” in this same place because after painting we always ended up in the same place drinking beers and eating in a pizzeria that closed very late. Rose is wearing the clothes used by the government workers who painted the city. So we used to dress like that to go paint, we’d apply acrylic paint and then, while one of us looked out, we’d spray paint.

Whose hands are they?

Those are Gusto’s… carrying the typical bag.
Going back to the picture of Europe, in it I intend to expose my double condition of immigrant and graffiti writer and the double illegality that this condition has as a consequence. When I arrived in Milan, I integrated with people who were very socially activist. At that time we held many demonstrations on the issue of the migrant crisis in Italy, in particular the migrants who died in the shipwrecks near Lampedusa. I don’t remember why it came to my mind, but there was a click with the coincidence of the name of this island and the name of the painting of the shipwreck of the boat “The Medusa” by Géricault, which I saw on my first visit to Paris and I made a kind of analogy between Lampedusa and the Medusa.

“I think that African migration cannot be understood without bear in mind the European colonial history and its presence on the African continent.”

So I took the image of Gericault’s painting depicting the sinking of a French fleet on its way to its colonies in Africa, i.e. from north to south. By rotating the image I made the ship face south-north, i.e. Africa-Europe. I think that African migration cannot be understood without bear in mind the European colonial history and its presence on the African continent.

On the other hand, there is also an ironic play with the incorporation of the InterRail ticket that says “global pass”, something that is also closely linked to the world of graffiti. The ease with which Europeans, and in general the countries of the global north, can travel throughout Europe and the world with virtually no need for visas, in contrast to the citizens of other countries who, in many cases, cannot even get on a plane and risk their lives looking for alternative routes to improve their living conditions.

“In the favela there is a Maggi logo painted on the facade of the houses that fascinated me as a child (…) it is curious that when I grew up I ended up painting those kinds of advertising interventions as well.”

Characters are part of the imagination of all graffiti writers.

Yes. This is in the case of the metros. But as you can see I’m interested in the graphics of cities at different levels. In the Caracas painting you can see it. In the favela there is a Maggi logo painted on the facade of the houses that fascinated me as a child because it looked perfect and as you got closer it became deformed. Whenever I passed by it as a child I always wondered how they could have painted it. And it’s funny that when I grew up I ended up painting those kinds of advertising interventions as well.

What about the crocodile?

I used to go through this tunnel to play soccer at Elevation 905 where the Crocodile Football Club soccer field used to be, and that was its logo. This is where I played as a kid and this is where my dad used to take me in the truck that appears here. I mean, this picture was taken in this van going over this bridge to go play soccer. But there is another thing; this van is called Caribe, 442. I didn’t realize it until the Keos came and said: “you bought this van because you are the Caribes”. And the Caribbean Sea appears in this image. So we are the Caribes in the Caribbean in the Caribbean Sea. It’s like a joke.

And here I get into Milan a bit. This is a picture that City took of us just after we finished painting in Sant Donato. A crazy action. This is the photo when we are already seated after painting, superimposed with a map that I took from there. I find it more attractive since the fetish is authentic. It has that kind of exposure that a photocopy lacks, for example. That was the first time I painted in Milan.

And this painting is about Buenos Aires, and what else?

And a bit of South America in general, here is the logo of Metrovías, the letters of the Japanese model that was on Line B also appear.

When I go around the city I like to capture typographic elements, especially if they are handmade. There is also a real bag of sugar from Bolivia on which the word Belgium appears, there is also a poster announcing a party in Lima, these posters are all over the city.

“They called seven more people to beat us up. The boy who was with me started to scold them saying, ‘I am from Caracas, don’t front’.”

And the skull?

Made in pencil. I use it as a “memento mori”. In these violent cities of Latin America I feel like remembering that. The phrase “FUERA VENECOS” [“VENEZUELANS, GO AWAY”] is also traced in pencil. It is a phrase I saw written in many cities during my travels in Latin America.

Why is there this stigma?

Venezuelans are the largest migrant group in South America. Latin America bore the brunt of the 7 million Venezuelan migrants. As in all migrations you get the best and the worst. There is no denying that there are criminal groups of armed Venezuelans, but also educated people who do things right. However, many right-wing political parties campaign a lot against immigration which is projected against Venezuelans.

I took this phrase from Lima. We were painting in this city -the tolerance of painting in Latin America- convincing people that there was nothing wrong and when they heard our accent, everything changed. They called seven more people to beat us up, the guy who was with me started to scold them saying, “I am from Caracas, don’t front” … I told him, “Bro, better not get into an argument.” When I turned around is when I saw the phrase. If I had seen it before maybe I would not have started painting.

It’s funny how xenophobia works….

It always has to do with systems of privilege and oppression. When you are in a non-Latin American country, immigrants from Latin America brother up, seeing a common factor even in how you relate to local citizens. I have met people from Peru who, being in Europe, complained about Venezuelan immigration there, their discourse being the same as the one we hate to hear from Europeans.

That’s why, after my experience in Lima, I got into the habit of pretending to be Italian. But well, I always want to think that these opinions come from minorities. In the end I have many friends in Peru that they have always treated me like a brother and I do not associate them with that thinking.

“(…) governments, from the difference they make business.”

In turn, when Venezuela filled up with Ecuadorians and Peruvians this also generated a lot of rejection towards them. What is curious is that, in Europe, with such a variety of cultures, religions, languages… it is easy for this type of problem to exist, even more so with the historical and almost ancestral wars that have taken place. But in Latin America, where we have the same language, the same religion, and the post-colonial history is almost parallel, the only thing that does not really separate us are our characters. There are even three countries that have the same flag. But governments turn that difference into business.

Finally, let’s go to the illustrations of deconstructed wagons…

They are drawing exercises and less conceptually-charged works. I value them, both as a graffiti writer and as a railroad infrastructure nerd. They are exercises that amuse me, are expressive, and that I use to experiment with different forms. In the same way that some people focus on drawing human figures, I do the same with trains; they are like caricatures. They also have elements made with spray paint because of the importance of the tools and because it is the medium I manage the best.

I would also like to thank the people of the MTN team, Anna Dimitrova and everyone who came by the exhibition on the opening day♦